Wednesday, 27 October 2010

Detailing Questions and Answers

Ask the Detailing Professor

Q: Is there any safety issues associated with nanotechnology car care products?

Health and environmental concerns; due to concerns over nanomaterial risks, there has been a dramatic increase in focused safety research. A major study published more recently in Nature Nanotechnology suggests some forms of carbon nanotubes – a poster child for the “nanotechnology revolution” – could be as harmful as asbestos if inhaled in sufficient quantities.

Anthony Seaton of the Institute of Occupational Medicine in Edinburgh, Scotland, who contributed to the article on carbon nanotubes, said "We know that some of them probably have the potential to cause mesothelioma.

So those sorts of materials need to be handled very carefully." In the absence of specific nano-regulation forthcoming from governments (Paul, J. & Lyons, K. (2008) Nanotechnology: The Next Challenge for Organics) have called for an exclusion of engineered nanoparticle from organic food

[A newspaper article reports that workers in a paint factory developed serious lung disease and nanoparticle were found in their lungs]

Nano materials can be just as carcinogenic as asbestos-
Information Resource
Nanoparticle Safety -

Toxicological Sciences -

Aquartz MSDS -

Q:  I’m curious to know what’s the "perfect" reflection measurement would be on the gloss meter, or could that vary depending on the car color? wouldn’t black "shine" more than per example white?Trade practice recognizes the following gloss levels, in increasing order of gloss: flat (or matte) practically free from sheen, even when viewed from oblique angles (usually less than 15 on 60-degree meter); eggshell- usually 20-35 on 60-degree meter; semi-gloss-usually 35-70 on 60-degree meter; full-gloss-smooth and almost mirror-like surface when viewed from all angles, usually above 70 on 60-degree meter.

Light Reflective Value (LRV)
The average blackest black has a light reflection value (LRV) of approximately 5% and the whitest white is approximately 85%. Some yellows can measure up into the 80's or 90's as well. All colours... fit in between these two extremes. A colour with an LRV of 50 will reflect 50% of the light that falls on it, and one with an LRV of 23 will reflect 23% of the light, and so on.

Think of a reflective value as a numerical version of a grey value scale for colours, roughly like this- Pure White - 100, White -95, Light - 80, Low Light - 65, Medium - 50, High Dark - 35, Dark – 20

Q:  That’s very interesting to know! so that’s why black gets hotter in the sun then white, it tends to absorb light instead of reflecting it, hmmmm now its getting a bit confused here... if white reflects more light, then technically it would measure higher gloss levels then if the gloss meter is measured in a black car, because the light the gloss meter is sending into the black paint would be absorbed a bit???, but in our eyes black will have more reflections.... LOLThe reflective value (RV) of a colour indicates how much light and heat is reflected back from the colour surface.

High reflective value (i.e. white or very light colours) exhibit Spatial (Shine) reflection –a mirror-like reflection of light... from a surface

Low reflective values (i.e. darker colours (black) exhibit Diffuse (Gloss) reflection incoming light is reflected in a broad range of directions

The most familiar example of the distinction between specula and diffuse reflection would be glossy and matte paints. While both exhibit a combination of specula and diffuse reflection, matte paints has a higher proportion of diffuse reflection and glossy paints have a greater proportion of specula reflection.

Q When applying a 'layer' of sealant over the clear coat, how much thickness are we actually talking about for that sealant? Less than 0.001Mils (0.000001-inch) thick

Q When we add layers, which is a really popular concept - do we really build thickness in the sealant, or are we just polishing the same surface more?
Layering: I prefer the word ‘film’ as opposed to ‘layer’, a film more accurately describes a thinly applied sealant or wax, were as a layer tends to describe a thicker covering. Some specialty paint protection systems can have subsequent film added to increase protection and paint appearance, systems must cure or cross-link prior to application of subsequent coats. Depending on the product type, cure times vary from a few hours to days.

By applying another low-solvent product (Victoria Concours Wax )on top of one that has already cross-linked you can increase its density (up to a point) two to four cross-linked (cured) applications are usually considered optimum One thing that will negate the applied product density is lack of clarity, the base coat (that contains the vehicle’s colour) is covered / protected by a clear coat of urethane paint, which as well as providing protection is clear to enable the paint colour to show through and provide the colour with depth. Any product applied on top of the clear coat needs to be optically clear (transparent) otherwise both the paint colour and its depth of shine will be muted. One of the problems with ‘layering’ some polymers is that they tend to occlude (become less opaque) as the thickness increases

The viscosity of the previous layer requires more solvent to significantly melt away than the next applied wax layer can contain The carrier system allows the product to fill and level the paint film surface to produce a flat surface (this flat level surface is more pronounced with polymers due to their molecular alignment characteristics). This level surface optimizes the paint film surface's desired optical properties (i.e. surface reflectance, clarity, gloss, and depth of shine)

You could also try this ‘layering’ technique- apply a liquid Carnauba wax (liquid wax usually contains polymer and solvents) and allow to set-up (usually 1-2 hours, do a smear test to endure that its dry and then a apply to a paste Carnauba wax; allow the solvents to evaporate for 2-4 hours, and finally buff surface with a 100% cotton towel to produce jetting (a ‘wet-look’ shine)

Wax- two coats to ensure even coverage (maximum is four) a wax cures (hardens when the solvents have evaporated ) usually 25-45 minutes then you can apply the second coat (ensure that there are no solvents left by doing a smear test otherwise the solvents in the second coat will remove the first) (See also Spit Shine)

Paste wax – use a low-solvent wax (Victoria Concours Wax, Souverän or P21S) is just a thicker form of liquid wax, just a different consistency, not necessarily more or less solvents. Some wax products use an emulsion to keep more liquid without adding solvents which, in high concentrations could remove the underlying wax too rapidly to allow the "melting" together of the wax" strata.

Polymers- some contain a mineral or silicone oil, or solvent based carrier system (these may also be in the form of an oil / water emulsion) and by the nature of this product they need to vaporise / dissipate and then its needs to cross-link (this is time dependant (unless a catalyst is added) and is quite separate from the drying process To my knowledge, all polymer sealants are based on an emulsion system containing petroleum distillates.

As a result, even the mildest petroleum distillates remove polymer sealants. Zaino Show Car Polish is the only polymer sealant that I'm aware of that is not based on the element silicone and can therefore be successfully layered (a new application of Zaino Show Car Polish does not remove previous applications).

Solvents / oils provide a lubricant and aid the adherence process by working their way into the microscopic gaps and valleys of the previous `layer' softening it, providing each subsequent applications carrying agent (solvent, oils silicones or emulsion) are not so concentrated that they degrade or remove (as in the case of a cleaner wax) what has been previously applied.

Also be aware that the both the product and the foam pad may be non-abrasive, but application pressure if not kept to an absolute minimum and using use a very light and even pressure, may re-introduce surface marring and/or removal of the previously applied product by friction. (See also Spit Shining, Wax (Hand applied)

Q How can varying the last step product effect the perceived depth of colour, if the layer that we're applying that product to is of course already a clear coat? Any product applied on top of the clear coat needs to be optically clear (transparent) otherwise both the paint colour and its depth of shine will be muted. One of the problems with ‘layering’ some products (polymer/wax) is that they tend to occlude (become less opaque) as the thickness increases

Q What is a polymer?
My first reaction was-which one of the 30,000 polymers are we going to discuss here.

The very simplified version; Polymer sealant- comprises an open linked molecule, which forms a bond with the paint; these open linked polymer molecules join together to create an elongated mesh like effect that reflects light efficiently due to their inherent flat surface. Because they are usually very transparent they transmit the surface colour faithfully, but they have very little depth resulting in what is perceived as a very bright, flat silver glow, polymers (Zaino, Klasse, Rejex, etc) Some paint sealants contain wax; the longevity of a paint sealant is due to the type of silicone (usually amino-functional silicone) that is used in its formulation. Polymers sealants require a paint to form a convalescent (or Covalent (molecular)) bond to (usually 12-24 hours); they will not bond directly to metal to provide protection

Q In Canada the temperature fluctuates so much does drastic change in temperature affect the clear coat/paint? If so how? Just curious that's all.
If you’re asking about temperature change, no harm, polyurethane is a plastic so it will expand/contract.
A 'moderate' temp swing, same thing- If you heated the surface and then immediately chilled it may cause thermal stress and fracture [tech stuff like coefficient of expansion, temperature difference, etc] which means you would end up with 'spider web' cracking

Q Temperature seems really important!
Indeed it is- Compound Polishing Surface Temperature - the temperature of a paint surface should be monitored when using a high-speed polisher, friction heat can cause a rapid temperature rise in the order of 20.oF (i.e. initial surface temp 80oF, heat attained with a cutting foam pad at 1,100 RPM for approx. ten seconds is approx. 104.oF) the localized paint temperature should be limited to 110.oF. In accordance with the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) a temperature of 115.oF will cause the urethane clear coat to soften and the foam pad will cause scratching that is forced deep into the clear coat.

Q Your opinions on Megs, Clay Magic red, and Top of the Line please, or other aggressive clays that you like
Detailing Clay Abrasive Ratings (on a scale of 1 to 5)
1. Hi-Tech Body Sponge™ - most surface marring 6/5
2. Clay Magic® - Red- very aggressive; a lot of surface marring - 5/5
3. Sonus Grey Block Detailing Clay- very aggressive; a lot of surface marring - 5/5
4. Top of the line purple- slightly less aggressive - 4/5
5. Clay Magic® -Blue- less aggressive; less marring - 3/5
6. Mother's - Yellow- 2/5
7. Sonus Ultra Fine -Green- 1/5 (will not remove wax / sealant)

Q My clear coat has etchings from the bird droppings. Once i notice them i remove them immediately. But after i remove the droppings i can see the clear coat has been burned. Is there anything i can do to prevent this?

No wax or polymer sealant can provide a permanent shield against acidic bird excrement (Collinite 845 Insulator Wax is probably the most durable Carnauba wax product) but this may only provide enough of a barrier to enable it to be removed quickly before causing too much damage to the paint film surface.

The type of damage inflicted on a paint surface is relevant to the birds diet, seed eating birds don't require the strong digestive acid that cormorants, pelicans, and other fish eaters do (to digest bones).
Seed eating birds use gravel to help digest their food so grit and sand are some of the major components, which can cause scratching.
Birds that eat berries will cause acidic damage to the paint surface. Insect honeydew (sometimes mistaken for tree resin) excreted by aphids or scale insects that infest the leaves and branches is also acidic. Residue should be removed (see below) as soon as possible as it could compromise the clear coat.

Take your time and be careful with its removal, these acids should be removed and/or neutralized as quickly as possible. Using an IPA (isopropyl alcohol) no ammonia based (ammonia acts as an acid accelerant) glass cleaner. Or use a gel alcohol hand cleaner (Purell®) place a small amount on to a first aid gauze pad and apply to effected area this will help it stay in place during the necessary dwell time. The alcohol content acts as a drying agent, which will extract the acid, then thoroughly flush with water to rinse away any grit or sand, etc or use detailers clay to encapsulate it, re-spray the area let it dwell for 2-3 minutes and wipe dry.

Avoid using a QD spray to flush residue, as they contain either Carnauba wax or polymer sealants, which will seal the acid and not allow it to dissipate.

Q Petroleum distillate is just a fancy way of saying solvents. You won't find many waxes or polishes that don't contain them, but many manufacturers try to hide the fact that they use them by calling them a different name, such as 'banana oil' which is actually a solvent called Isoamyl acetate or 'orange oil' which is a solvent called Limonene. There is a lot more to hydrocarbon petroleum distillates then solvents (but that’s the subject of another article)
Solvents: Solvents are used for chemical cleaning, and as a carrier system, it also makes products workable, especially in spray applications and to enable a products spreading ability, as is the case with Carnauba wax, which in its natural state is rock hard.
The low surface tension of silicones is sometimes added to solvents to improve the wetting ability and to improve the surface contact. Solvents require an aerobic cure (exposure to air) to allow them to evaporate (outgas); some solvents contain formaldehyde, which dissolves both natural rubber and synthetic compounds, and some contain petroleum distillates specifically hydrocarbon and oxygenated solvents, which represent most of the total organic solvents used.
Organic solvents - can be classified by chemical structure, for example water is a solvent, but is inorganic. Solvents provide solubility for the other ingredients, dependent upon the type of solvent used will determine the product's drying time.

Use a safe solvent, d-limonene citrus-based (P21S Total Auto Wash or Simple Green® Aircraft & Precision Cleaner) i.e. solvents that do not contain any harmful components (butyl, heptanes or xylene or hydrocarbon aliphatic solvents) With all cleaning products (especially solvents) always test a small inconspicuous area first to ensure it won't discolour, stain or etch the surface, and ensure that the pH of the product is suitable for the material. It is important not to leave a solvent based chemical on the surface longer than is necessary. After the paint surface has been subjected to a chemical cleaning its protective layer (s) have been removed and the paint surface left without protection, so it is very important that a wax or polymer protection be applied immediately.

There are three main types:
1. Oxygenated Solvents- alcohols, glycol ethers, ketones, esters, and glycol ether esters. Oxygenated solvents are synthesized from other chemicals to form the desired solvent. Those solvents are typically of a high purity with specifications ranging from 99.0% to 99.9% purity.
2. Hydrocarbon Solvents (Petroleum Distillates) - aliphatic (include methane, propane, and kerosene, they are flammable and may be explosively flammable).
3. Aromatic hydrocarbons- (are the most toxic compounds found in petroleum products and include such substances as para-xylene (benzene, toluene, ethyl benzene, and xylene), which are all volatile organic compounds (VOC) (See also Petroleum Distillates)

Information resource - The American Solvents Council represents major hydrocarbon and oxygenated solvents manufacturers and users.

Q I wonder if there is any difference between water based painting and solvent based painting on paint correction, gloss and reflectivity?
Water-Based Paint Finishes: In the past twenty years, environmental and occupational safety concerns have put great pressure on the oil-based coatings industry. Many industries (including newspaper inks mfg) have seen the migration of coatings toward water-based formulations. These changes moved approximately 20% world's automotive industry to water borne coating by 1999, since this change there has been a lot of talk about the durability of these automotive paints. (See also Paint Systems)

However, water borne paints have some drawbacks:
1. Water borne paints are softer than acrylic oil based paints. The quick forced dry process using higher curing temperatures causes the paint to dry fast, but not as hard. As a result, these paints scratch more easily. 2. Water borne paints also have difficulties with increased orange peel and production line runs and sags. The increased orange peel causes a reduction in overall smoothness and gloss.
3. Water borne paints are also more porous than conventional acrylic finishes. This accelerates a process known as drift; it is the process of waxes and sealants soaking into the pores of the finish.
4. Because the finish of a water-based paint is porous, when magnified it looks similar to the surface of the moon, peaks and valleys etc., as sealants heat and cool, they soak into the finish. Drift occurs in every known finish, however the water borne paint allows this process to occur much more rapidly, in some cases, even as short as a two week period of time. As drift occurs, the paint is left susceptible to the outdoor elements.

This leads the paint to lose gloss and be susceptible to water spots, acid rain, industrial fallout and many other forms of foreign particles.
Maintenance -water borne finishes aren't dramatically different than caring for a conventional paint finish, as with most paint systems the base colour coat is protected with a water-based polyethylene clear coat

Q I've heard that it is more difficult to compound and polish the water based painting than the solvent based painting. Is it true?
No (see above)

Q2 Which one is harder? Solvent-based paint is more dense (hard)

Q3 Does water based or solvent based have any influence on the paint hardness? Yes

Q Can I use Menzerna Super Intensive Polish and their nano polish by hand to remove scratches? These polishes were designed to work with high speed rotary polishers, utilizing friction to break-down the diminishing abrasives

Q I have always used a circular motion when polishing and applying wax, etc. but I have read that it's better to use just straight line (up/down or side to side) when polishing. Why is that? Polish- these products contain abrasives and should be applied in straight-line motions (Forget what Mr. Miyagi was teaching the Karate Kid) circular motions will cause circular directional marks (swirl marks) When an abrasive is applied by hand the pressure applied is uneven and the reflected light highlights the paint films surface peaks and valleys differently.

Q Is Leatherequi the best product for leather care? [Our products are the “original” and “Simply the Best for Leather” as dubbed by the RROC in 1968. George Pavlisko Jr. continues research and development to always keep our products cutting edge and “the best] [Leatherequi]

Since the late ‘80s early ‘90s, many of the newer domestic cars and some imports (US) do not use natural leather hides anymore. Approximately 90% of vehicle manufacturers have used (thermoplastic) polyurethane covered split hide leather for their interior upholstery.
According to Leatherequi you apply the (conditioning) oil first and then the cleaner, but the cleaner will only remove dirt (oils) not the Leatherequi oils. I have always questioned how the cleaner distinguishes between oils (i.e. the most common dirt in leather is body oils followed by suntan oils and then oily residue brought in via the a/c)

Q What is (paint) orange peel?
Orange Peel is paint film surface that has a dimpled appearance that paint takes on due to an equipment/operator caused defect. Like wrong paint-gun pressure and/or distance from panel, an operator not knowing how to set-up the equipment for that particular type of paint, or even a partly blocked paint-gun nozzle, improper pre-paint preparation and /or paint application, or uneven drying of the clear coat.

It should have been eliminated after the final shooting of clear coat by wet sanding the paint film surface, and polishing with an abrasive polish and a high-speed rotary polisher. After delivery- It can be removed by wet-sanding (colour sanding) by a very experienced detailer / vehicle paint restoration expert
Check the paint with a paint thickness gauge (PTG) to see how much paint there is available before attempting repairs Clear coat that is too thin loses its ability to adhere effectively (delaminating) to the underlying paint layer and will flake off

Q How much paint is removed by polishing?
Using a medium abrasive polish and a rotary polisher will remove approximately 0. 1 Mil (3µ (Microns)) from the paint surface (typically 4 passes at 1500-1800 RPM) but there are many variables such as polish/compound and speed / pressure used that may affect the paint removed) These numbers should be checked with a paint thickness gauge (PTG) There comes a point when you must judge wither removing a scratch will compromise the clear coat and if so you’ll have to ‘live’ with the imperfection. If you have reservations about the amount of paint surface removed or the amount of paint coating remaining the use of a paint thickness gauge (PTG) is arbitrary

Q What are the consequences of improper curing time
A polymer will form a strong bond with another clean polymer (urethane paint) surface; it will not bond well with metal. Bonds vary widely in their strength; generally Covalent and ionic bonds are often described as strong, whereas hydrogen bonds and van der Waals' type bonds are generally considered to be weak.

The majority (70%) of a polymer matrix cross-linking cycle occurs within 30 – 45 minutes of its initial wipe-on application drying; a swipe test is the best way to determine if it is ready to be removed; run your bare finger across the paint and if the product doesn't smear it is ready to be removed. However it is recommended that a period of 12 - 24 hours is allowed after the initial cross-linking for the process to complete, otherwise polymerization and durability may be compromised
Although it should be noted that surface oils or silicone and / or moisture introduced before the cross-linking process is complete will interfere with the bonding of a polymer and will negatively affect its durability

Copyright © 2002-2010, TOGWT ™ Ltd (Established 1980) all rights reserved

No comments:

Post a Comment